Curse

funbun · Jun 15, 2005, 01:57 AM // 01:57

Try this on for size. Pre-Searing spawns n00bs (not to be confused with newbs). Almost all the quests can be done alone. The ones where you have to team up are just superficial. People don't learn how to work as a team. They end up playing the game by themselves and come out of Pre-Searing not understand the fundamentals of teamplay:

1. Follow the leader
2. Call Targets
3. Don't rush off alone
4. Pull enemies toward you
5. Follow instructions
6. Only attack called targets

AreaNet should add more quests in Pre-Searing which focus on these aspects of teamplay. The game is supposed to be about teamwork, yet a person coming out of Pre-Searing doesn't even know the fundamentals of teamplay. In fact, many lvl 18 players don't know teamwork.

My suggestion? Create quests which focus on teamwork in Pre-Searing. This may cut down on n00bage.

dansamy · Jun 15, 2005, 02:11 AM // 02:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by funbun

AreaNet should add more quests in Pre-Searing which focus on these aspects of teamplay. The game is supposed to be about teamwork, yet a person coming out of Pre-Searing doesn't even know the fundamentals of teamplay. In fact, many lvl 18 players don't know teamwork.

My suggestion? Create quests which focus on teamwork in Pre-Searing. This may cut down on n00bage.

I like this idea. It took me a long time to figure out how to auto assist on the called target.

DrSLUGFly · Jun 15, 2005, 03:07 AM // 03:07

seconded... I didn't learn about calltarget till I was like in Kryta or LA, and I've helped out others in the same places who also didn't know. All these things are crucial to gameplay and should be covered with focused quests in pre-searing.

Perhaps (this is quite likely) Anet didn't realize that most people coming into this game are new to Multiplayer RPGs and so don't quite understand the benefits of taking a specific role within the team. I love to be the leader, making a plan, pulling targets, calling the targets and giving directions... but I also know when I'm not suited to the role and when I should be following instead, the choice comes rather easy for me but I had to learn through countless deaths. Would be nice to have learned this pre-searing and also nice if future PUG's learned this in pre-searing.

long wind made into a breeze: Slugfly supports this idea on behalf of gastropods everywhere

Deathlord · Jun 15, 2005, 04:25 AM // 04:25

I also didn't learn about call targets and i've played WPE and E3 (I don't remember them ever being used in it... were they even implemented? Or were they SO Un-known that my parties missed them). First found out sometime in crystal desert on the secondish try of Elona's Reach. They really should make a quest associated with it since it's essential to a majority of the parties success. (Maybe have devona dose off and talk about Ctrl+Mouse... Devona:"Wait... what's a mouse?")

psycore · Jun 15, 2005, 04:36 AM // 04:36

They need to add a quest where you ally with a henchmen in pre searing who "calls targets" and stuff and explains to you how it works and how it is beneficial to the team.

BlaineTog · Jun 15, 2005, 04:56 AM // 04:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by psycore

They need to add a quest where you ally with a henchmen in pre searing who "calls targets" and stuff and explains to you how it works and how it is beneficial to the team.

YES.

This should be part of the move from pre to post searing. During the part after the PvP, Rurik should go around calling Targets.

ManadartheHealer · Jun 15, 2005, 04:58 AM // 04:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlaineTog

YES.

This should be part of the move from pre to post searing. During the part after the PvP, Rurik should go around calling Targets.

Don't trust Rurik to do anything right....

But, yes, something like that would work nicely

DrSLUGFly · Jun 15, 2005, 05:33 AM // 05:33

that'd be perfect for Rurik since he seems so lazy and unlikely to kill anything himself

funbun · Jun 15, 2005, 10:58 AM // 10:58

They need Pre-Searing quests requiring teams of three. Three people is enough to have a leader, someone to pull, and someone to call targets.

Example:
I just beat the game last night: Hell's Precipace. At first the group sucked. We had people runing off rush into beds of enemies. The whole while we had a ranger try to lead, pull enemies, and call targets. He was doing a great job.

The group kept dying because most wouldn't follow instructions or obey calls. After everyone's Death Penalty soared through the roof, the n00bs in the group began to understand they need to follow instructions.

Sure enough after everyone started following these Fundamental Teamplay Principles, we beat the final game mission, even with -60% Death Penalty!

We started as a suck group, but became a real team. Nice too see so many who feel as I do on the subject

More Thoughts
Whatever way they choose to do this they should make it so you have to succefully complete at least 2 teamplay type quests before joining the military.

Beyond the wall is great training ground for that. There are plenty of enemies, plenty of groups to pull and call targets. They should have it where they MUST:

1. Call 5 targets
2. Pull 5 individual groups of enemies
3. All players must obey 5 calls

Two or Three quests like that would set a foundation for GOOD Teamplay, and PvP in the newbie levels would be 1000% better.

suzumebachi · Jun 15, 2005, 11:09 AM // 11:09

HAH that sounds like me. I always end up leading, calling targets, AND pulling, because nobody else knows how to do any of the above. AND I just finished Hell's Precipice.

You know the first.. 6 or so tries, I went with PUGs. But they kept dying on like the 3rd or 4th group because nobody could follow directions. I gave up on PUGs and took henches, and made it to the last boss on the first try. But of course the henches got absolutely murdered after the Lich's res and summoning of more Hands/Fists.

So I gave up on henches again and finally got a PUG that could follow my directions. What's sad is at one point, we accidentally aggro'd a second group of the Titans, and everyone but the monks died. 2 people quit at that point (the ones who couldn't follow directions and kept killing the other Hulks anyways) and we managed to finish the game anyways because the rest of the team could follow directions.

It's amazing the difference it makes when people can attack called targets, and not go running off thinking they're God's gift to tanking and aggro more groups. And also actually drawing lone monsters and picking them off one at a time. Sure it requires patience and a little bit of strategy, but you're 200% more likely to succeed.

v-Lo · Jun 15, 2005, 02:19 PM // 14:19

Very true. I don't even recall seeing "target calling" anywhere in the game. A guy told me about it when I asked. But this should really be worked out in the pre-searing, absolutely. The game is, then again, based on competitive team playing. It's funny how the fundamentals of team play are not taught in anywhere... bad mistake from A-net

This should really be fixed in the next update.

RTSFirebat · Jun 15, 2005, 02:35 PM // 14:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by v-Lo

Very true. I don't even recall seeing "target calling" anywhere in the game. A guy told me about it when I asked. But this should really be worked out in the pre-searing, absolutely. The game is, then again, based on competitive team playing. It's funny how the fundamentals of team play are not thought in anywhere... bad mistake from A-net

This should really be fixed in the next update.

Its not even in the manual... well not from what I recall... a simply tutorial missin/quest in the ascalon academy would do the trick.

Hell Marauder · Jun 15, 2005, 02:46 PM // 14:46

These are all really nice and workable suggestions. But as you can see from above posts, you can find noobs even in Hell's Precipice. How the heck did they get there without knowing anything about teamwork?? I am more inclined to think many people just want to have some fun playing as noobs, and are not actual noobs. Afterall, if the game is all about being a mindless slave following the master's call and do nothing else, it can be boring too.

Prince Rurik · Jun 15, 2005, 03:00 PM // 15:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by DrSLUGFly

that'd be perfect for Rurik since he seems so lazy and unlikely to kill anything himself

Hah! Puny mortal - I have racked up more kills by now than you ever will. Don't forget, while you run around by yourself, tens of thousands of me are scouring the land, charging recklessly into packs of Charr and Devourers!

Cowardly human players! Cowards all!!!!

RTSFirebat · Jun 15, 2005, 03:05 PM // 15:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prince Rurik

Hah! Puny mortal - I have racked up more kills by now than you ever will. Don't forget, while you run around by yourself, tens of thousands of me are scouring the land, charging recklessly into packs of Charr and Devourers!

Cowardly human players! Cowards all!!!!

lol! That's the funniest thing I've read in days

He's like a typically warrior:

Prince R: "Charge... death to the charr"
Me: "er... hang on need to recover health and mana"
Prince R: "Less talk, more fighting"

FrogDevourer · Jun 15, 2005, 03:15 PM // 15:15

Quote:

Create quests which focus on teamwork in Pre-Searing.

Where do I sign? Please.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Prince Rurik

Don't forget, while you run around by yourself, tens of thousands of me are scouring the land, charging recklessly into packs of Charr and Devourers!

No offense intended, dear Rurik, but you're no longer what you used to be. A couple of months ago, I was sweating whenever you were chasing charrs. Since the latest updates, you're slow and boring. Now where is the good ol' rurik who used to keep me playing on my toes...

Prince Rurik · Jun 15, 2005, 03:35 PM // 15:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by FrogDevourer

Where do I sign? Please.

No offense intended, dear Rurik, but you're no longer what you used to be. A couple of months ago, I was sweating whenever you were chasing charrs. Since the latest updates, you're slow and boring. Now where is the good ol' rurik who used to keep me playing on my toes...

Well, I admit that I'm slowing down a bit, but it's not my fault! The developers insisted on testing the Dwarven Ale on the NPCs before giving it out to the human players, and it's really affected me. I can't help myself, I'm always nipping over for a few before a mission starts, it's a real problem! I'm an alcoholic, disowned, doomed Prince! The whole time I am chasing down an Ash Walker I'm thinking, "Well, we're almost done, soon I can nip over for a quick pint before running Surmia again...". You'd drink too if you knew your fate!

funbun · Jun 15, 2005, 03:53 PM // 15:53

SPOILER:

Rurik, how is the Hall of Heros? Are all the Great Masters there? After your death in Hell's Precipace it was nice to know you did not betray us after all.

What of combat? Is there more training, more battles, more matches?

At least now you are free, out of the conrtol of dark lords and demons.

psycore · Jun 15, 2005, 04:05 PM // 16:05

That wasn't much of a spoiler warning at all.... and GG thread hijack.

funbun · Jun 15, 2005, 04:12 PM // 16:12

AreaNet are you listening? How do we make a formal suggestion? Is there a website or something? Start a petition thread?